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Saturday, November 1, 2008

Politics Before and After a Crash, Depression

What are the odds of a repeat EXACTLY like this 1929 - 1932 flip?

Obama for the win! Landslide?


Boat52 said...

Today's Yahoo has a very concise and clear comparison of the two candidates' views on many issues. One of the more disquieting issues is McCain's view that the taxation of "carried interests" of hedge fund and private equity managers remain at 15%.

Obama wants it taxed at ordinary income rates like Joe The Plumber wages. On this basis alone, the population should vote a resounding no to McCain. McCain's position truly is an affront to every taxpayer who goes to work daily and gets no special tax benefit.

Disclaimer: I am a life long Republican who earned my wealth in the investment business, some of it related to hedge funds, and have contributed to the Obama campaign.

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We are seeing the Right Wing Noise Machine failure. We are seeing what it takes to bust up Roger Ailes, Fox CEO, and his hold over the American middle class. Roger Ailes, Rush Limbaugh, matt drudge, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are having a rough time distancing the Republican Party from George W Bush.

The red, white, and blue ads, the militarianism, the fear mongering, the war mongering have little effect. However, I would be the first to acknowledge Roger Ailes's effectiveness in the past 25 years has been superb propaganda. For all that the Republicans whipped people up with their anti-gay stuff, so Karl Rove could put gay issues on the ballot and turn out the vote, most Americans are too dumb to realize the Fox channel, when it first started as a UHF channel, ran "Married With Children" two or three nights a week. The program openly promoted gay lifestyle, and most Americans never realized the contradiction.

We'll know Tuesday night what's left of the Roger Ailes empire.

Jesse W. said...

VERY interesting! As I have said in the recent past, no matter who is the president in the next term, it is going to be VERY hard to be successful!

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The march to socialism is almost complete.All and all just another brick in the wall. Civil war coming in the not to distant future. Atlas is shrugging.

A_REAL_American said...

Just more unpatriotic negativity from liberals who hate America, and the troops.

towelie said...

Pretty interesting pictures.

The funny thing with conservatism over the last 25 years is that it has convinced a majority of Americans that taxes on the rich (which the vast majority is not) somehow hurts their personal bottom line too. As if one day, any one of us will be making millions a year once we come up with that great idea or - even if that great idea never comes - we just work hard enough. This ideal is perfected in people like "Joe the Plumber" who believes that Obama is somehow going to raise their taxes even though there is an excellent chance that person will never even come close to making over $100k/year let alone $250/year (the point where your taxes go up in Obama's plan). FYI, my buddy the tax accountant ran the numbers and found that you will pay $900 more per year if you make $250k/year, or 0.36% of gross income. This is socialism, how?

For the people shouting "Marxism" and "socialism" you better be fully prepared to support and defend the benefits of a "fair tax" (one massive sales or income tax at a flat rate for everyone). Otherwise your cries are ignorant and hypocritical. We have had a graduated income tax for decades and neither candidate has plans to change it (only the amount of the graduations). If you believe that a graduated income tax is somehow the same as socialism, you are a fool.

Before folks like "a_real_american" (do you still check the closet for communists every night?) misunderstand me, I am not against conservatism at its ideals (smaller government, less spending). But with those ideals in mind, realize that we just endured 7.5 years under a conservative president (with over 15 years of a conservative house and senate) and yet we have spent more than any other time in our history and expanded government power more than ever. How are you still in support of this if you claim to be a conservative? Try to answer without using the phrases "anti-american", "freedom hating" and "socialist liberal" as they show you don't actually have any clue what you are talking about.

I hope you guys that liked trickle down economics and deregulation enjoyed it, because they wont be back for quite a while.

Not that I believe liberalism is our savior: There is little we can do to stop the economic bleeding other than take our medicine and hope we recover quickly. I am in complete agreement that we will be fighting a deflationary spiral and it doesn't look pretty since we are dangerously close to a ZIRP and have still done little to address the real problem.

fish said...

It will be telling to see how the elections turn out. I'm not all for unchecked liberal spending, but i'm voting straight Dem this time because we all know tougher times are coming and i'd honestly rather have the government waste it's money at home vs. bullets and overseas as this fake "conservative" government did while they were in charge.

Might as well build some bridges and shit with my money.

Also_A_Real_American said...

"A_REAL_American said...

Just more unpatriotic negativity from liberals who hate America, and the troops."

A_real_american is probably a bot...I've seen the exact same comment on several blogs now. At the very least it's a cut and paste job. Grow some neurons dude!

Steve in Philly said...

Conservative and liberal are words that no longer have any meaning when it comes to the politics of the economy. The proper spectrum is, and always has been, capitalism vs. statism, and on that scale, both parties are well down towards the statist end of the spectrum. So go ahead and rail on about how conservatives have failed, and it's time for the liberals to have a go, because you are just calling for one gang of statists to replace another. What we need, and what has not existed in any form at all since the 19th century, is unadulterated lassiez-faire capitalism.

It doesn't fundamentally matter if Obama wins or McCain wins -- meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Anonymous said...

Which party doesn't matter; I clean my hand off the blood - no baby murderer.

Anonymous said...

For the last year I have really gotten a good feel for the market and I used to be a huge Republican. I still vote that way but I can honestly say that they ran as conservatives and Governed like liberals. So when you do that the public will just vote for the real liberal because at least they know what they will get.

But as far as how it will effect the economy?????? That is a mess that has yet to be cleaned up and the guy in office better have a good fiscal sense to him or they will do more damage.


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Anyone who believes that their have been ANY FISCAL conservatives in the white house for decades is smoking crack. Democrats are communists and the Republicans are socialists.
They both suck and we are screwed. The reset button is going to be pushed because the " BOOMERS " ARE THE WORTHLESS GENERATION. Euthenasia and soylent green will be their reward. Most of them are chumps and will be getting what they deserve.
We needed hard core fiscal restraint years ago but now its too late.

OperationNorthwoods said...


Both of those statists work for the oligarchs. So, in a sense, one could argue that it's capitalism versus the plutocrats. The robber barons have pretty much been in charge for 120 years, so maybe things will change during the coming depression.

Anonymous said...

The maps are not surprising.

When times are good, everyone loves riding the train...
But when the train runs out of steam...everyone goes running to "mama" (i.e. the gov't).

Now that everyone is scared about their jobs, future, way of life, they want their gov't (thier 'mama') to take care of them.

But when the tracks are once again clear, and there are opportunities to be had, they don't wan't mamma getting in the way of their opportunities.

Just like the markets. When times are great, no one encourages bonds (too safe, too slow, no real gains...just like with 'mama'). Instead their are all riding the equities train and want to leave 'mama' at the station.

With the bailout, panic for change, etc... mama has come to the rescue....but this time...mama aint going to let you leave.

In fact, you, your kids, and their kids better make room, cuz' mamma is moving into every corner of yours and their lives...and she is comming to stay!

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